65 Pan oil pump problem

[Simon_A]

Here's an interesting problem:-
Mate of mine has a 65 pan that suddenly developed noisy tappets, suspecting the oil pump the top end feed was found to be non existent, tappet screen clean, oil pressure light going out as it should. Oil feed to pump ok, pipe not delaminated, pump pressure relief valve clean and not stuck all pump drive keys intact. Has anyone ever experienced an air locked pump?

 

[softail898]

Don't know anything about Pans except the little I have picked up from reading but first thought: is there any signs of an oil leak anywhere and obvious I know but is there sufficient oil in the Tank?

 

[Simon_A]

Plenty of oil in tank, we have even tried feeding from a different source and that doesn’t seem to be being picked up by the pump. Hence the thought of an air lock, that seems almost unheard of.

 

[watchman]

Blocked pushrod ?

 

[Simon_A]

Blocked pushrod ?

Unlikely as there doesnt seem to be any oil going up the external pipe to the top end

 

[Ron]

Head much scratched but little in the way of result except for crack in the body?

With the pump off the engine can it be turned by hand with a oil supply to see if anything comes out of it.

If one of the little lock rings has gone walkabout can the drive gear move out of alinement?

 

[Simon_A]

Drive shaft is still mounted as it doesn't seem worth tearing down the cam chest just to confirm that the drive gear is connected, with no outward movement which would also suggest the nasty little c clip is still in place.

 

[watchman]

Had a shovel with similar symptoms but it would not raise enough pressure to get the oil light out but this seems the reverse it may be raising just enough pressure to to make the light go out but not enough to feed for the tappets and top end which makes me think the gears inside need replacing or possible the entire pump if there is scoring or wear inside

 

[softail898]

Had a shovel with similar symptoms but it would not raise enough pressure to get the oil light out but this seems the reverse it may be raising just enough pressure to to make the light go out but not enough to feed for the tappets and top end which makes me think the gears inside need replacing or possible the entire pump if there is scoring or wear inside

That makes sense. Whatever the reason I think you are going to have to start dismantling stuff to investigate further.

 

[Simon_A]

Thanks guys, the pump is off, I'll try and get some pictures

 

[Simon_A]

 

[Simon_A]

Pump faces all look good so still leaning towards a restriction between tank and pump. New piece of pipe and try again.

 

[watchman]

Si pop a pic of the gear faces up ta and the woodruff key ?

 

[BaZa®]

Simon has it got rubber oil lines they can collapse and restrict flow. I wonder if the pump drive gear in timing cover is broken, that would cause no pumping. Also if the oil lines are restricted you may need to pull the lifters and let them sit in oil over night. Has the tappet screen been replaced if so make sure to remove all the corks from the bottom of the cavity btw is he running solid conversion pushrods or hydraulic units?

 

[Simon_A]

Si pop a pic of the gear faces up ta and the woodruff key ?

Sorry no pictures of the gears as I am remote from the bike, but reliably informed that all are good and keys are intact.

 

[BaZa®]

Simon the gears are worn into the housing quite deep, between that wear. Worn gears and the excess end play it created you won't be moving much oil, especially hot.
Put a new S&S pump on it, it will never run much better.

 

[Simon_A]

Fully appreciate what you are saying Baza but that's how pumps are made, counter bored for the gears to establish the fit. Wear on these faces normally shows up in the teeth portion not the flat contact centre area so you would have a pronounced step. The clearances are well within spec. Waiting for an update from my mate.