Catalytic location on FXLRST
- Thread starter Summers
- Start date
Mark Hammond
Committee
You may find two sets of cats. The 2021 onwards Sport Glide has a cat in the muffler and a cat in the headers.
Buellbloke
Registered User
If you have stock headers mufflers and filter element then a tune up will achieve nothing.
If you have fitted some slip ons then your bike will require 2x O2 eliminators fitted prior to your tune, unless your slip on's come with provision for O2 sensor fittment.
Suggest pulling main fuse before removal and fitting of O2 sensors/eliminators to save throwing a code.
Same applies if fitting a full system.
Also recommend the use of a better air filter element for either slip on's or full system as version comes with bike is paper and disposable meant only for factory setup.
Pre 2021 models had the regular x2 downpipe O2 sensors, these bikes could get away with no tune if only the slip on's were fitted and no changes to the air filter were made.
After 2021 EU bikes had 4x O2 sensors fitted.
If using a V&H fuel pack only version 4 works with later versions with 4x O2 sensors.
On a side note harley tunes ie stage one used to be emission controlled often resulting in after market pipes popping and banging on the over run.
Am completely uncertain as to what types of tune harley dealers now provide or whether their tunes cause the same scenarios??
If you have fitted some slip ons then your bike will require 2x O2 eliminators fitted prior to your tune, unless your slip on's come with provision for O2 sensor fittment.
Suggest pulling main fuse before removal and fitting of O2 sensors/eliminators to save throwing a code.
Same applies if fitting a full system.
Also recommend the use of a better air filter element for either slip on's or full system as version comes with bike is paper and disposable meant only for factory setup.
Pre 2021 models had the regular x2 downpipe O2 sensors, these bikes could get away with no tune if only the slip on's were fitted and no changes to the air filter were made.
After 2021 EU bikes had 4x O2 sensors fitted.
If using a V&H fuel pack only version 4 works with later versions with 4x O2 sensors.
On a side note harley tunes ie stage one used to be emission controlled often resulting in after market pipes popping and banging on the over run.
Am completely uncertain as to what types of tune harley dealers now provide or whether their tunes cause the same scenarios??
Buellbloke
Registered User
All the modern fuel packs (tuners) are designed to work with the forward x2 O2 sensors, early power commanders had to remove them but then they ran orrible. In order to remove the rears will require eliminators, you can't eliminate the front ones.
Mark Hammond
Committee
If the bike is being properly tuned, the rear sensors can simply be mapped out and there’s no need to use eliminators. O2 eliminators are a crude solution to question of removing the rear O2 sensors and have proven to be unreliable in use for some of us.
Buellbloke
Registered User
I do not have absolute knowledge about mapping out rear O2 sensors as this has only been an issue since 2021 and only on EU motorcycles. Harley as far as I know specifically supply rear O2 sensor eliminators, non fitting of eliminators I would imagine will throw codes as these are an electrical interface not software as in a map. Can maps/tuning eliminate the need for eliminators and not throw codes as about to venture into this territory I guess I should know?? I would also like to add that previous harley tunes prior to M8 were emission controlled ie not true clean tunes and caused numerous running issues though mainly popping and banging on the over run. Are newer M8 maps supplied by harley no longer emission controlled/have issues??
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Mark Hammond
Committee
We are talking about simply including within the remapping of the ecu, a change in the parameters for the rear O2 sensors so that they no are no longer sending a signal to the ecu and therefore making them redundant and isolated. If the rear sensors are properly mapped out, they don’t trigger error codes and eliminators are therefore not required to be fitted.
You’d have to ask a Harley dealer to find out if the HD supplied maps are emission controlled maps, but the vast majority of UK dealers use the Diag4 or Dynojet systems to provide canned maps to their customers. Both of these systems are usually set to map out the rear O2 sensors and aren’t technically compliant with the terms of the manufacturer warranty.
watchman
Club Member
Harleys maps are crap as most are emissions governed get a good dyno tune with a powervision or see boz at v twin in rye he uses direct link kit both are the best set ups out there and with a good exhaust and air filter set up it will be night and day and should you go further cams bore kit ect the foundations are laid…….
Buellbloke
Registered User
Actually I do recall on my Guzzi Griso 1200 the beetle map applied rendered the x2 O2 sensors as deleted, although you could leave them in for sakes of MOT should it become a requirement. Am getting old, its highly probable all the harley O2 sensors x4 are deleted, previous 2008 maps supplied by Power Commander performed a complete sensor delete, tickover back then was hideous though and had to leave the Power Commander fitted. Anyone you know of tried removing all the O2 x4 sensors and blanking off the front x2 holes??
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Buellbloke
Registered User
Been considering the "Dynojet Power Vision 4" though previously used a "V&H FP3" as had V&H Big Radius on a 2015 Fat bob.Harleys maps are crap as most are emissions governed get a good dyno tune with a powervision or see boz at v twin in rye he uses direct link kit both are the best set ups out there and with a good exhaust and air filter set up it will be night and day and should you go further cams bore kit ect the foundations are laid…….
I really liked the option to mess with the tickover on the FP3. Digital tickover was supposedly meant to be a 1000rpm though was more like 990 - 1080, tightened it down to 920 -1020 and was much nicer.
Was considering the V&H FP4 though it does seem to have some caveats, issues/crashes and bugs, no licensing options, no stage 2 support as yet, not even certain it has any of the previous options to mess with the tickover and over run, it seems few to no owners have reviewed one yet which is really bad.
I have heard applying M8 maps can increase the tickover some??
Was pleasantly surprised harley dropped it to 850rpm on the new M8's, though that said digitally its more like 720 - 870 and the lower figure feels close to a stumble. Would prefer if it remained above 800rpm.
I do like the option to buy licenses for the PV4 which means the product has future use on different machines or can map a mates bike for a price even share the cost of ownership. I did see some further options on a youtube vid which suggested, tickover options, throttle grip/ride by wire control and a shit ton of other stuff.
Read somewhere intial cost allows for the mapping of two machines??
It's entirely possible harley dealers are using the PV4 too as the fee they charge is pretty close to the cost of a new license, my local dealer also claims the cost to be a one off, suggesting a stage two map would be supplied for free. My only concern is that maybe the maps harley are supplying via PV4 if thats what they are using still have emissions control within the map??
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watchman
Club Member
All harley maps are emission controlled however supplied by a dealer either by harleys tuner or dynojet kit under license via the dealership whereas a full set up properly done here in the uk at a tuning center will be far more on the ball we brought a bike in from the states with a so called harley stage 3 on it and it ran like a donkey until it was taken to pdq in slough and harleys own crap download was wiped and the the power vision completly redone picking up 15hp and 12ftb in the process 
Buellbloke
Registered User
Why would I need to go to a tuning centre?? I can simply buy the PV4 download and apply my own tunes, certainly for stage one. ie Screaming Eagle/K&N air filter element and tasty 2 bros shorty turnout in raw finishAll harley maps are emission controlled however supplied by a dealer either by harleys tuner or dynojet kit under license via the dealership whereas a full set up properly done here in the uk at a tuning center will be far more on the ball we brought a bike in from the states with a so called harley stage 3 on it and it ran like a donkey until it was taken to pdq in slough and harleys own crap download was wiped and the the power vision completly redone picking up 15hp and 12ftb in the process
watchman
Club Member
Aaah not many people have their own tunes and to a degree every engine is slightly different given temp air density ect mcn or bike magazine did a test years ago 2 identical gsxr 750 ran in out of the crate one nursed by the book one thrashed from the first start up for a 1000 miles then dyno tested both the thrashed one gave more power all round and went on to be their test mule for pipes ect but it proved the difference between identical engines and the fact that one canned map does not necessarily work for all and an individual tune though costly is better 
Buellbloke
Registered User
All harleys are not equal even stock, I know this from experience. That said the idea of the PV4 is to be able to download a map and tune your bike using a mobile phone same as the V&H FP4. As long as it dont run like a dog, surge under 30mph or pop and bang on the over run then I will be happy. I did notice on the fat bob that the FP3 map made the bike run a teeny tiny bit less instant, instant insofar as a cable activated 103 dyna can be.Aaah not many people have their own tunes and to a degree every engine is slightly different given temp air density ect mcn or bike magazine did a test years ago 2 identical gsxr 750 ran in out of the crate one nursed by the book one thrashed from the first start up for a 1000 miles then dyno tested both the thrashed one gave more power all round and went on to be their test mule for pipes ect but it proved the difference between identical engines and the fact that one canned map does not necessarily work for all and an individual tune though costly is better
I factored that down to running rich over running lean.
Its new owner would only experience the bike mapped by the FP3, no longer popping and banging on the over run or low speed (sub 30mph surge) also as fitted a DK Customs catch can, non of the associated breathing issues vomit caused. Also the tickover tightened to 920 -1020 rpm. 3 years on and she's still running sweet. His first experience of harleys made perfect by anothers intervention. He will get a shock if he buys a new one. I will see where I get running a dowloaded tune if it then requires further intervention I will face that hurdle when I come to it. Your assistance along with Mr Hammond has been most invaluable.
My apologies to the OP if it seems like I have hijacked his thread, was not my intention
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