97 FLSTC

[wombat457]

I have just joined the Forums and am happy to be here. I thought I would introduce my bike and get some opinions and advice if I may. As the title says, I have a 1997 Heritage Softail (FLSTC) which I bought from the original owner about 12 years ago. When I bought it, it was 100% stock and remains 80% stock today. Other than cosmetic additions, new paint work, seat, windscreen, foot pegs, crash bar, lights and so forth the only performance upgrades I have done is to add an S&S Air Cleaner System and a Vance and Hines Full Exhaust System - Staggered Long Shots:

Recently, however, the bike has been running very poorly as if it is running out of fuel - coughing and spluttering and back firing through the exhaust when throttling down and in lower gears (2nd/3rd) and/or at lower revs. As soon as I put on the power (throttle up) and/or get above 50 MPH, it seems to run a lot better and smoother. It's constant hesitation though is annoying and very frustrating indeed.

One of the possible issues is the "upgrades" I did are not being liked by the stock carby and the bike is not getting enough fuel or air or too much of either. I am only guessing though. I am awaiting the arrival of new Spark Plug Leads (magnum Chromite), Plugs (NGK Iridium's) and a new S&S Super E Carby. I also have an Andrews 13 and Andrews 27 Camshaft to install - I am just not sure which of the two I will go with though.

Anyway, if some one can shed some light on the poor performance and running issues it would be appreciated, or suggest any other alterations that might be beneficial for the bike and its running and performance.

 

[Army]

Hi Wombat to start with your carb is the first thing I would look at due to the bikes latest additions and this will be especially so when you fit new cams. The carb will require rejetting but this will most likely require a few different size jets that you will have to play with until the correct one sorts the erratic running out

 

[wombat457]

@Army

Thankyou and the carby was my first thought as well - hence buying the new S&S. Good to get confirmation though and it is appreciated. Messing with the jets seems like a bit of a pain in the butt. Is there any way of knowing what size jets need to be used or is it literally a hit and miss thing as you seem to be suggesting?

 

[watchman]

Hi and welcome with a super e put a 295 intermediate in an try a 76-78 main and you will be close either of those cams are good with the ev27 coming in from 1500rpm and the 13 later but more mid to top depends where you ride there is loads of help and knowledge in here no such thing as a daft question and maybe look into a better ignition module as it will rearly come together then

 

[Simon_A]

Had similar symptoms years ago on my 95 Heritic, turned out to be one of the lugs broken on the main battery leads, mine was on the starter. They break under the insulation sleeve and make intermittent contact. Might be worth a tug if you have the seat off.

 

[wombat457]

Thanks Gents and will also take a look at the battery leads. I didn't think about them at all. I might just replace them as well.

As for the ignition module, I have been up and down about replacing it. Some say it will make the bike better while others claim it will not make a difference OR create problems - BUT, don't expand on what those problems might be. Any suggestions on which Ignition Module to consider?

I believe Dynatek is suppose to be good?

 

[kiwidave]

I reckon you do need to rejet the carb. More air going in, less restriction going out. You don't NEED a new carb.

I like Simon's battery cable tip a lot. Those cables are 25yrs old now.

Check your charging system - is the regulator working as it should? Any issues re-starting bike when hot/warm? See the sticky file in Tech Tips section on here

Check the VOES line too. The small rubber hose between the top of the carb and a Vacuum Operated Electric Switch on the left side under fuel tank. This controls engine ignition advance. if this line is holed or adrift, you have idle/low speed issues.

Remove fuel line at carb to check you have good flow into carb.
Bad flow? Fuel filter in tank could be clogged. Remove petcock to check.


All modern ignition modules work well. There's not much to choose between them.
The only factor to consider on an Evo is: single fire or dual fire?
The stock factory system on an Evo is dual fire - a wasted spark in one cylinder at the same time as a compression power spark in the other. Single-fire ignitions obviously eliminate the wasted spark, and the claim for years was better fuel mileage, longer engine life, lower vibrations. I don't recall significant differences in any of those fields while running single-fire on an Evo for 20yrs but there's no doubt it is a significant upgrade. Put it this way - Harley dealers scoffed at single-fire modules during the Evo era as ''waste of money''. When the Twin Cam arrived in 1999 the new, improved ignition was.....single-fire!

Welcome. ;-)

 

[wombat457]

I reckon you do need to rejet the carb. More air going in, less restriction going out. You don't NEED a new carb.

I realise I don't a new Carb but I prefer to keep or try to keep things compatible S&S everything else so it seemed the right thing for me to do and will automatically eliminate any carb issues that might be present. Bear in mind, with the S&S I get a variety of Jets to choose from as well - and those do need changing.

I like Simon's battery cable tip a lot. Those cables are 25yrs old now.

Yeah I am looking into them at the moment - not cheap hey

Check your charging system - is the regulator working as it should? Any issues re-starting bike when hot/warm? See the sticky file in Tech Tips section on here

Nope, haven't had an issue with starting with the bike hot or cold - just with the choke (enhancer) refusing to remain out till the bike warms up. The new Carb'll fix that problem too hopefully.

Check the VOES line too. The small rubber hose between the top of the carb and a Vacuum Operated Electric Switch on the left side under fuel tank. This controls engine ignition advance. if this line is holed or adrift, you have idle/low speed issues.

Remove fuel line at carb to check you have good flow into carb.
Bad flow? Fuel filter in tank could be clogged. Remove petcock to check.

Thanks, I'll look at that tomorrow and see if I can see anything

All modern ignition modules work well. There's not much to choose between them.
The only factor to consider on an Evo is: single fire or dual fire?
The stock factory system on an Evo is dual fire - a wasted spark in one cylinder at the same time as a compression power spark in the other. Single-fire ignitions obviously eliminate the wasted spark, and the claim for years was better fuel mileage, longer engine life, lower vibrations. I don't recall significant differences in any of those fields while running single-fire on an Evo for 20yrs but there's no doubt it is a significant upgrade. Put it this way - Harley dealers scoffed at single-fire modules during the Evo era as ''waste of money''. When the Twin Cam arrived in 1999 the new, improved ignition was.....single-fire!

Welcome. ;-)

Well I just ordered an S&S HI- 4N Ignition, don't know if that is dual or single fire. From what you say - I hope it is single fire

Thanks for all the tips - all appreciated and taken into account.

Looks like I got lucky OR Hank knew that was what was best and what I needed as the Ignition is a Single Fire Ignition

All I have to do now is find someone to help me put this stuff together OR do it for me ...

 

[Army]

Wombat put your county of residence on and all sorts of recommended people will be suggested

 

[softail898]

Well I just ordered an S&S HI- 4N Ignition, don't know if that is dual or single fire. From what you say - I hope it is single fire

S&S Hi-4N Ignition Module used to be Crane but S&S bought it out some years ago. I have the Crane Fireball Hi-4TC and have had no problems.
It is infinitely adjustable to aid in tuning and although yours will be a different shape the ability to fine tune will still be there. I have attached the info. on the Fireball Hi-4TC and the S&S Hi-4N which will give you an idea of the units.
And yes the Hi-4N is Single Fire.
Good luck.

 

[wombat457]

Wombat put your county of residence on and all sorts of recommended people will be suggested

@Army I am in Stueben County, the Bath, Hornell, Addison, Wellsville sort of area of ahh the USA so am not sure there will be too many takers

S&S Hi-4N Ignition Module used to be Crane but S&S bought it out some years ago. I have the Crane Fireball Hi-4TC and have had no problems.
It is infinitely adjustable to aid in tuning and although yours will be a different shape the ability to fine tune will still be there. I have attached the info. on the Fireball Hi-4TC and the S&S Hi-4N which will give you an idea of the units.
And yes the Hi-4N is Single Fire.
Good luck.

@softail898 Thank you for the information sheets - they will certainly be helpful. I remember Crane Cams etc from a little while ago and do remember that they were darn good cams and cranks, well, for cars anyway.

 

[kiwidave]

S&S no longer offers ignitions, but those are damn good - plenty still around for sale. I have a couple spare for when the next one dies after 50,000+ miles.

Yes, single-fire. Make sure you use compatible coil and HT leads - which you will have if you bought not just the module but a full ignition kit.

Follow S&S carb setup advice to the letter and only adjust WHEN ENGINE IS AT TEMPERATURE. **NOT** cold, or cool, or after idling for 10min in the garage. Take the bike for a 30 mile run before you make adjustments, you may need to bend an old small blade screwdriver beforehand so you are well prepared. This temp tip is critical.

 

[wombat457]

S&S no longer offers ignitions,

Perhaps not in the UK but here in the US they do -

Ignition | S&S Cycle

www.sscycle.com

I like S&S stuff, even though I think they are ridiculously over priced but I don't like them enough to want to have spares - I'm not quite THAT keen

I bought the full kit so everything is included, or I would hope it was. And it will be my (now) mechanic who will be doing the work, a Harley rider himself, so I am sure (and trust) that he will do everything as per the book. The one thing I am going to do though, regardless of what my mech does, is get it Dyna Tuned so everything is perfectly set up for optimum everything. Not sure about the UK but that is a pretty decent amount of dollars here BUT worth it I hope.

This is the Ignition I am getting anyway:

S&S HI-4N Performance Ignition Kit - Parts Giant

Buy S&S HI-4N Performance Ignition Kit starting at $510.26 plus free shipping at Parts Giant.

www.partsgiant.com

 

[wombat457]

Well, now I look at the kit better I see I have wasted $65 on top quality Leads as the Kit comes with leads. Not sure which will be better BUT I assume the supplied ones would be the better for this ignition system anyway ?

 

[kiwidave]

That's a surprise. Several US shops told me a couple of years ago that S&S had discontinued the Hi4N ... and for a long time it was not available on the S&S website, but I just checked and indeed it is back. Good to know.

Accel products have enjoyed a decreasing reputation in recent years, so the HT leads you bought may yet come in handy. The Accel ones that come with it will hopefully be better than modern Accel coils.

You really do not need an Evo like that dyno-tuned. UNLESS you need to know the horsepower output, and are chasing more.

Dyno-tuning for optimal everyday riding set-up is a consquence of computer-controlled EFI Harleys, A good mechanic will have a 25-yr-old motorcycle with no sensors or injection set up right using his eyes and ears. Just my view.

 

[wombat457]

That's a surprise. Several US shops told me a couple of years ago that S&S had discontinued the Hi4N ... and for a long time it was not available on the S&S website, but I just checked and indeed it is back. Good to know.

Accel products have enjoyed a decreasing reputation in recent years, so the HT leads you bought may yet come in handy. The Accel ones that come with it will hopefully be better than modern Accel coils.

You really do not need an Evo like that dyno-tuned. UNLESS you need to know the horsepower output, and are chasing more.

Dyno-tuning for optimal everyday riding set-up is a consquence of computer-controlled EFI Harleys, A good mechanic will have a 25-yr-old motorcycle with no sensors or injection set up right using his eyes and ears. Just my view.

Perhaps they S&S realized they had given up on a darn good product and (low and behold) used some logic and brought it back???

I'm not using this as an excuse but a lot of companies, including HD, stopped producing stuff during that idiotic covid thing - using it as an excuse for the production stops. Perhaps that is what those US shops meant ?? That S&S hadn't cancelled the ignition, just stopped production of it at that time.

Thanks for the information re Dyna Tuning - I wont waste my money then and your right - if a mechanic is a REAL mechanic, he should be able to tune a carbureted bike by ear and have it running perfectly

"Computer controlled Harleys" - I like that, very appropriate. I wonder how long it will be before they come up with one that Parks Itself??

I probably should say that cos someone just might try that on Trikes :(

 

[Army]

My old GS1000 back in 1980 had serious Carb hiccup and a very good mechanic set the bank of 4 up on his balancer and 15 min later the hiccup reoccurred so I put a long screw driver against the carbs and put my ear against the other end and I could hear which one was out of adjustment and with a few turns here and there the carbs were in perfect harmony

 

[softail898]

My old GS1000 back in 1980 had serious Carb hiccup and a very good mechanic set the bank of 4 up on his balancer and 15 min later the hiccup reoccurred so I put a long screw driver against the carbs and put my ear against the other end and I could hear which one was out of adjustment and with a few turns here and there the carbs were in perfect harmony

Old School! Things were so much simpler then.

 

[Army]

Your right, I once rebuilt a Triton and I placed the carbs back on but the slides had ended up being swapped over so each slide was placed in the carb but in my mind a slide is a slide and it took me many hours head scratching until I decided to swap them over and it worked so obviously each slide must wear its own path in the carb body, that motor ran perfect after that carb issue