Battery recommendations please

[SJC69]

CCA is just another method used of stating a battery capacity and primarily stated for batteries used on starter duty rather than for storage or back up and other uses. Optimally the design of a battery is determined for it's primary type of use, so on starter duty you expect it to be able to deliver a high capacity output very quickly for a short period of time, rather than a steady discharge for a long period of time.
What this means is if you use a battery designed for a Fire Alarm i.e. back up of the same Amp Hour capacity rather than one designed for starter duty, the ability of it to deliver a high capacity, very quickly will be a lot lower and it will not perform as well and most likely not last as long as that sort of use can damage it.
Starter duty type batteries generally cost more than stand-by batteries!

The CCA, as said will be rated and tested in a specific method and under certain conditions, all batteries will deliver lower outputs at lower temperatures, this is defined by the laws of physics and chemistry.
The stated CCA will have to be met or to a near percentage under the most undesirable parameters of the test, so quite often at normal UK ambient temperatures it will exceed this by some margin.
This can be shown when battery conductance tests are carried out and the results are given as state of health normally in a percentage can be above 100% and the CCA well above the rating of the battery. These of course are not infallible and are an indication as to the expected performance rather than an exact test of performance delivery, but conductance tests have many advantages over the Load Discharge testing.
So back to, the higher the CCA rating the less work the battery has to do rather than a lower rated battery.

This is a result from a very cheap unsophisticated conductance tester with no reference value or temperature adjustment but shows the new battery well over the Rated CCA!

Additional Reference Info:- Conductance FAQ

 

[Andy from Sandy]

all batteries will deliver lower outputs at lower temperatures, this is defined by the laws of physics and chemistry.

But the purchaser ought to be assured that if they are not operating at -18°C the CCA marked on the battery should be attained.

 

[SJC69]

But the purchaser ought to be assured that if they are not operating at -18°C the CCA marked on the battery should be attained.

Sorry but I do not see what your point is?
A battery that is tested to and rated at a certain CCA @ -18 Celsius, will deliver at least that CCA or more than likely a higher rating at higher temperatures, as the chemical reaction will speed up with the rise in temperature, this is demonstrated to some extent as in the test photo above.

Yuasa Vehicle Battery Range

 

[Andy from Sandy]

I think most know a battery doesn't appear to perform in cold weather, although it may in part be due to thick oil affecting cranking speed, whether they understand physics and chemical reactions or not. I suspect that is due to the way an owner abuses it rather than anything else in particular. Not keeping it fully charged is the biggest enemy of an AGM battery.

My point is as the CCA test is at a temperature unlikely in the UK then what is printed on the battery is what one should expect all year round.

 

[SJC69]

The CCA reading is quoted at -18C (0F) as this is the agreed National and International agreed standards tests at which to test, so all batteries that meet these standards are rated in the same way.
These standards will be the ones used by a manufacture to base the minimum CCA requirement battery specified.

It just one of those things, it was decided to test at Zero degrees Fahrenheit, if you start giving dual ratings for different regions and ambient temperatures you are then multiplying the number of tests and possible wide variations as to what specification you have to put on the documentation and batteries and what rating the manufacturer recommends.

If a battery meets it's CCA at -18c it will at least meet or exceed that at a higher temperature.

I suspect that is due to the way an owner abuses it rather than anything else in particular. Not keeping it fully charged is the biggest enemy of an AGM battery.

You are not wrong there:-
From the Yuasa Short Form manual...
Repeated deep discharge of a standard starter battery will damage the internal
components and lead to premature failure.

 

[Ron]

Use a Smart Charger that is designed for AGM Battery’s as they usually have a Desulfation setting that helps to recondition the Plates in the Battery helping recovery and prolonging its life. Smart Chargers charge AGM Batteries at a higher Voltage than normal Chargers, 14.6-14.8V as opposed to 13.8-14.4V. AGM Battery’s need this higher Voltage to charge correctly.

Hi SJC69, need some help/info here. I have a Optimate 4 to charge the AGM battery on my Ironhead Sportster. When the battery is on the maintenance charge part of its cycle it is only delivering 13.54V (book says 13.6). Is this too low for a AMG battery or is it because its the maintenance charge cycle. Are the higher figures above for a different part of the charging cycle.

According to the book much higher voltage is applied to recover very flat neglected batteries, up to 22v with current limited to 0.2 A. The Optimate will only do this on a battery off a vehicle.

The Optimate4 is supposed to be for STD / AMG-MF / and GEL battery's.

I,m not much of an electrician so as simple an answer as possible would be good.

Thanks.

Ron.

 

[softail898]

Ron, click HERE for info on the Optimate 4. Scroll down to the "How it Works" section and you will see the various steps of the charging cycle. No.10 shows 13.6V for the Maintenance Charge part of the Cycle which is what you are seeing. Don't worry about the .04V you are missing.
The Voltage Retention Test and the Maintenance Charge are alternated every 30 minutes.
The Optimate will deliver up to 16V depending on what the charger sees from your Battery.
Click HERE for the full instructions.
Hope this helps.
Pat.

 

[Ron]

Thanks Pat, you've set my mind at rest, I can hear it snoring already.

Ron.

 

[SJC69]

.....Don't worry about the .04V you are missing. .....
Pat.

Completely agree with that... .0.04v

That could easily be meter or leads error!
Just so there's no sleep lost anywhere or frenzied new meter purchasing.... regards accuracy, this is what Fluke Meters state :-
Basic DC accuracy of Fluke handheld digital multimeters ranges from 0.5% to 0.025%

So expect a lot higher range with more basic meters

 

[Andy Dyna-Bassman]

I've got Motobatt on the Dyna and BS on the RK. Both seem OK to me. The BS was very keenly priced on Ebay and it feels like a quality item to me.
My mate swears by Exide, who also seem to have a good price on the bay
That's it... thank you

 

[Mark Hammond]

AGM Hybrid just went in my Street Glide 650 CCA

Motobatt » Hybrid Batteries

Motorcycle Batteries, Powersport Batteries & More. Hybrid Batteries

www.motobatt.com

Also took the opportunity to wire in the quick connect fitting for my Noco jump pack that I bought for my Sport Glide, but never got around to fitting.

 

[softail898]

Tayna Batteries and MotorcyclePartsStore sell them.

 

[Andy from Sandy]

Thank you.

I searched for Motobatt MHTX and only MBTX types were retuned. I then searched for just MHTX and got some results. How strange is the way search engines work.

I just recently bought a new battery but will save this and take a look next round.

 

[softail898]

These Hybrid Motobatt Battery’s are a lot more expensive than the AGM Motobatt, double the price, but the CCA is is way above the AGM ones. Be interested to hear how Mark Hammonds one performs.

 

[Andy from Sandy]

To be lighter and have a higher output it has to be lithium. To be able to charge it on a lead acid charger it has to have some clever electronics especially the ones that start with a desulfate stage.
Time to do some searching and reading.

 

[softail898]

Have a read of this, it explains the Hybrid Battery. It says "ADAPTABLE, to lead acid charger". Sounds like you do not need a Lithium Charger?
Click HERE.

 

[Mark Hammond]

These Hybrid Motobatt Battery’s are a lot more expensive than the AGM Motobatt, double the price, but the CCA is is way above the AGM ones. Be interested to hear how Mark Hammonds one performs.

Have a read of this, it explains the Hybrid Battery. It says "ADAPTABLE, to lead acid charger". Sounds like you do not need a Lithium Charger?
Click HERE.

This has been a bit of a leap into the relative unknown but if it gives the promised service life and performance, it will be worth the additional cost. The 650 CCA rating was particularly attractive and I can confirm that the bike is now a very lively starter, even first thing in the morning.

Charger compatibility was one of my early questions before purchasing and both Motobatt and Tayna confirmed that my Optimate 3 was compatible with the motobatt hybrid battery.

Price wise, it was much more expensive than a regular Motobatt or Exide type battery, a bit more expensive than a regular duty Yuasa of the same size and quite a bit cheaper than the heavy duty Yuasa that has a CCA rating of 500.

Technical info on the motobatt hybrid battery is quite thin on the ground, so as I say, this ended up being a bit of a “partially sighted leap of faith into the unknown”

 

[softail898]

I have CTEK Battery Chargers and have just fired off an E-mail to CTEK regarding the compatibility of the Chargers with this type of Battery.
As you say Mark, the info. is a bit scarce. You would think if they introduce a new product they would anticipate the questions they would get and give more information.