So it's maybe got ideas floating, veterans or NHS staff day or discount on the tickets. Every year we lose club brothers and we are all getting older, I'm 61 and I bet that at that age I'm classed as a young un. So the future of the club where does it go or does it just end when the we have all hung our lids up.
International Rally
- Thread starter Army
- Start date
It's whether folk want the oldest Harley club to have a future beyond today or does it just stroll into the sunset
devon.john
Club Member
I did look at joining the VMCC ,,,i think there average age is higher than ares ..
but talked to one or two who said that as the group was getting older they were doing less ie riding etc
then the cost has raised to £55 so i decided not to join
back to this club was thinking along the lines of a rally similar to say the hook up , would it work ?
but talked to one or two who said that as the group was getting older they were doing less ie riding etc
then the cost has raised to £55 so i decided not to join
back to this club was thinking along the lines of a rally similar to say the hook up , would it work ?
TikTok
Committee
Our membership is currently at one of it's highest points (~2120 in March 2024). Harley ownership is at an all time high, 2022 saw 52,876 Harleys registered in the GB (Statista.com). Our membership in proportion to the number of Harley Davidson motorcycles registered is lower when compared to the 1990s (~1850 members, but fewer Harley motorcycles).
The average age of a motorcycle rider in the UK is 54 (honda.co.uk). The average age of a club member is around 67 (need to fact check this) and they own their own home and have a garage/lockup.
Many of those who were members in the 1990s, are still members today, this is a huge testament to the club. However, familiarity and a touch of nostalgia reinforces repetition and sometimes complacency. Many of us seem to feel that what we offer isn't necessarily that appealing to those who don't have established friendships/associations with other longer standing members.
As the number (and variety) of H-D motorcycles remains high, this has created sub-groups within the brand, (choppers, sportsters, dyna bros, FXR, touring), which attract riders to specific aesthetics / styles. Equally, as the age of existing riders increases, this affects the popularity of certain models (heavy touring bikes being replaced by lighter softail models or sportsters). Social factors, such as the cost of a property with a garage or a lack of a space to work on a bike, make owning a motorcycle that needs work, less appealing or practical. All of these need to be considered when identifying who best to appeal to. It's too difficult to appeal to everyone all at once.
For the club to continue, we need to attract new members at an equal or greater rate than we lose members. What the rate of acquisition/growth should be, what new members 'look like', and how to engage with them, requires a more complex answer.
Do we push for growth for a couple of years, in order to generate membership subscription revenue and get more money in the bank, which would enable us to take (limited) financial risks by trying new things when appealing to other Harley sub-groups at our events? If the club is to exist for another 75 years, my personal feeling is that change is to be expected, what that looks like is unclear without a strategy.
For instance, the largest group of active Harley riders in the UK is HOG (17,000 members in 2017, MCN). Is this not the demographic we should be targeting if we want to increase membership? HOG members own Harleys, they understand the club structure we have, they like to ride, they go to rallies and they make use of volunteers. By comparison, Sportster Sickness are smaller, appear to have a much less formal structure, don't rally and tend to participate in day events. (I'm not well informed on "the Sickness"). The chopper scene (Hook-Up, 101 Run) isn't a members/club scene and I'm unsure why many of the chopper riders and builders I know would want to join the riders club today, even if they attended an event we put on.
In terms of what we currently offer, we have a lot of regions and a lot of rallies, which are generally small in size and similar in theme. I sometimes wonder if our funding setup (subs to the club, regions to be self-funding) creates a situation where we compete against ourselves by offering so many smaller events, rather than fewer, larger rallies which rotate geographically? edit: Or larger collaborative events with other organisations to share risk and profit.
My personal opinion is that our rallies struggle to differentiate. Aside from Perrys and the Vintage & Sportster, I'd struggle to explain how many of our rallies differ from one another in terms of the theme, format or what is offered once you are there. This is in no way a criticism as each rally has many merits.
If we want to appeal to as many people as possible, one needs to offer more of the same for existing members and something that meets a need for a new audience eg Hook-Up chopper show, Hot-Rod Hayride, Goodwood Revival, Trip-Out etc. Whatever is offered also has to compete with everything else that is going on that weekend in that June - August window.
Practically speaking, until we define some expectations around how many new members we want to attract, from where and what changes we are able or prepared to make, I'm unsure what can be done to change current perceptions.
This topic is something that the committee is aware of and any solution I imagine would require a lot of moving parts and a significant amount of volunteer time (from across the club) to deliver.
The average age of a motorcycle rider in the UK is 54 (honda.co.uk). The average age of a club member is around 67 (need to fact check this) and they own their own home and have a garage/lockup.
Many of those who were members in the 1990s, are still members today, this is a huge testament to the club. However, familiarity and a touch of nostalgia reinforces repetition and sometimes complacency. Many of us seem to feel that what we offer isn't necessarily that appealing to those who don't have established friendships/associations with other longer standing members.
As the number (and variety) of H-D motorcycles remains high, this has created sub-groups within the brand, (choppers, sportsters, dyna bros, FXR, touring), which attract riders to specific aesthetics / styles. Equally, as the age of existing riders increases, this affects the popularity of certain models (heavy touring bikes being replaced by lighter softail models or sportsters). Social factors, such as the cost of a property with a garage or a lack of a space to work on a bike, make owning a motorcycle that needs work, less appealing or practical. All of these need to be considered when identifying who best to appeal to. It's too difficult to appeal to everyone all at once.
For the club to continue, we need to attract new members at an equal or greater rate than we lose members. What the rate of acquisition/growth should be, what new members 'look like', and how to engage with them, requires a more complex answer.
Do we push for growth for a couple of years, in order to generate membership subscription revenue and get more money in the bank, which would enable us to take (limited) financial risks by trying new things when appealing to other Harley sub-groups at our events? If the club is to exist for another 75 years, my personal feeling is that change is to be expected, what that looks like is unclear without a strategy.
For instance, the largest group of active Harley riders in the UK is HOG (17,000 members in 2017, MCN). Is this not the demographic we should be targeting if we want to increase membership? HOG members own Harleys, they understand the club structure we have, they like to ride, they go to rallies and they make use of volunteers. By comparison, Sportster Sickness are smaller, appear to have a much less formal structure, don't rally and tend to participate in day events. (I'm not well informed on "the Sickness"). The chopper scene (Hook-Up, 101 Run) isn't a members/club scene and I'm unsure why many of the chopper riders and builders I know would want to join the riders club today, even if they attended an event we put on.
In terms of what we currently offer, we have a lot of regions and a lot of rallies, which are generally small in size and similar in theme. I sometimes wonder if our funding setup (subs to the club, regions to be self-funding) creates a situation where we compete against ourselves by offering so many smaller events, rather than fewer, larger rallies which rotate geographically? edit: Or larger collaborative events with other organisations to share risk and profit.
My personal opinion is that our rallies struggle to differentiate. Aside from Perrys and the Vintage & Sportster, I'd struggle to explain how many of our rallies differ from one another in terms of the theme, format or what is offered once you are there. This is in no way a criticism as each rally has many merits.
If we want to appeal to as many people as possible, one needs to offer more of the same for existing members and something that meets a need for a new audience eg Hook-Up chopper show, Hot-Rod Hayride, Goodwood Revival, Trip-Out etc. Whatever is offered also has to compete with everything else that is going on that weekend in that June - August window.
Practically speaking, until we define some expectations around how many new members we want to attract, from where and what changes we are able or prepared to make, I'm unsure what can be done to change current perceptions.
This topic is something that the committee is aware of and any solution I imagine would require a lot of moving parts and a significant amount of volunteer time (from across the club) to deliver.
Last edited:
devon.john
Club Member
Well written Til tok,
Summers
Club Member
Don’t get me wrong, I definitely don’t want to see the club fold, but as TikTok Rick said, it will require a huge shift in mind set. ( he is doing good work in R17 ) new member and regular meetings.
chopper
Club Member
the question that needs to be asked is would the HDRCGB and its members want to organise/attend a weekend event where 20-30% turn up in Vans, Cars, motorhomes, non harleys etc etc as they get at the Hayride, Hook up and Trip out etc Also some of the people and behaviour that come with that!
What also needs to be remembered are these events are put on by a individual or individuals for profit and have grown from small low number events to the large hundreds and in some cases thousands they now are over many years with lots of promotion, special guests, attractions, sponsorship deals etc etc etc.. All of this is a lot of work for volunteer's.
I also dont want to see the club collapse, but i dont think it will, yes the membership is getting older but as Rick stated, we are still doing well...
As rallies become less attended they will become smaller, less people = less expense, smaller venues less events etc like DJ im a fan of the smaller events, people mingle more and find new mates to then see at other rallies...
Over 20 years of being a member of this fine club i have met so many good people and many good mates at weekend rallies all over the country and Europe, yes we have lost many over the years but there are always new faces turning up....
if it aint broke, leave it the f**k alone (just my opinion)
What also needs to be remembered are these events are put on by a individual or individuals for profit and have grown from small low number events to the large hundreds and in some cases thousands they now are over many years with lots of promotion, special guests, attractions, sponsorship deals etc etc etc.. All of this is a lot of work for volunteer's.
I also dont want to see the club collapse, but i dont think it will, yes the membership is getting older but as Rick stated, we are still doing well...
As rallies become less attended they will become smaller, less people = less expense, smaller venues less events etc like DJ im a fan of the smaller events, people mingle more and find new mates to then see at other rallies...
Over 20 years of being a member of this fine club i have met so many good people and many good mates at weekend rallies all over the country and Europe, yes we have lost many over the years but there are always new faces turning up....
if it aint broke, leave it the f**k alone (just my opinion)
Last edited:
Halal Tim
Club Member
Johns rallies are a good crack. No bands murdering whole lotta rosie, paranoid, etc etc. More volume doesnt equate to more talent. Venues near a town, so you can wander in, instead of sitting at the same bar.
As above, talk to new people, with different bikes, take the piss etc.
Well worth doing.
Keith Smith
Club Member
So, here we are again, doom & gloom, club getting older, will it survive etc etc.
I joined the Riders club in 1988, I was on the committee for much of the 1990's, and an often discussion was the club membership, it's getting older, if we don't do something it will be gone in 10, 20 years or whatever. We now have a high membership number, and a large number of rallies (probably too many?), most people attending the rallies seem to prefer smaller events generally with a few larger ones in Europe.
You cannot compare the Riders club numbers to HOG because anyone who buys a new bike automatically gets membership, also the structure is different as well as it's aims.
The biggest threat to the club will be the reduction in petrol engines, once the demand slows petrol will cost more until a point when it's not viable, maybe you'll all be riding the Livewire by then (maybe better than nothing?), I say 'you' because i'll be long gone by then....
The rallies the regions put on is the main issue I have, almost all are in Rugby clubs or similar with just different bands etc. I don't blame the regions at all, it's too risky financially to do anything else, also a big risk putting on the silly games like the old days (anyone remember the games on and off bike at the Poker run in the 1990's?).
The highlight of the club year used to be the National rally, put on and paid for by the club itself, the idea was good although the locations not always so (Shipley?). It was then decided that the club, who could afford it, would pass all responsibility for the national rally to the regions, who couldn't afford it. Most annual national rallies now require a big financial risk by regions and / or individuals, and the end result means sometimes people think they look like just a large regional rallies, which is very unfair after all the hard work.
Maybe we should all attend as many rallies as possible this summer, earn the regions some money, and don't worry too much about the future
I joined the Riders club in 1988, I was on the committee for much of the 1990's, and an often discussion was the club membership, it's getting older, if we don't do something it will be gone in 10, 20 years or whatever. We now have a high membership number, and a large number of rallies (probably too many?), most people attending the rallies seem to prefer smaller events generally with a few larger ones in Europe.
You cannot compare the Riders club numbers to HOG because anyone who buys a new bike automatically gets membership, also the structure is different as well as it's aims.
The biggest threat to the club will be the reduction in petrol engines, once the demand slows petrol will cost more until a point when it's not viable, maybe you'll all be riding the Livewire by then (maybe better than nothing?), I say 'you' because i'll be long gone by then....
The rallies the regions put on is the main issue I have, almost all are in Rugby clubs or similar with just different bands etc. I don't blame the regions at all, it's too risky financially to do anything else, also a big risk putting on the silly games like the old days (anyone remember the games on and off bike at the Poker run in the 1990's?).
The highlight of the club year used to be the National rally, put on and paid for by the club itself, the idea was good although the locations not always so (Shipley?). It was then decided that the club, who could afford it, would pass all responsibility for the national rally to the regions, who couldn't afford it. Most annual national rallies now require a big financial risk by regions and / or individuals, and the end result means sometimes people think they look like just a large regional rallies, which is very unfair after all the hard work.
Maybe we should all attend as many rallies as possible this summer, earn the regions some money, and don't worry too much about the future
devon.john
Club Member
Keith like you been around a long time ,,,,
back in the day we gathered around a bonfire no music except a odd one or two singing ,,
went away feeling good about the event ,,, and not expencive to run
now its groups 4 times a day ,,,food etc all layed on ,,, but at a cost ,,,
i still like and run the old stile gatherings ,,,, not a massive amount turn up but you get to talk to most ,,,,
Banter ,,bikes ,,,beer ,,and a bonfire to me thats the best ,,,,
old skool maybe but sometimes people forget you can have a great time without spending a fortune
just to add the last event i was involved with was the Malvern rally inc the great tommy sleep out ,
just sent off £600 to the royal british legion ind ,,
that was what we raise every penny ,,(just rounded up )
back in the day we gathered around a bonfire no music except a odd one or two singing ,,
went away feeling good about the event ,,, and not expencive to run
now its groups 4 times a day ,,,food etc all layed on ,,, but at a cost ,,,
i still like and run the old stile gatherings ,,,, not a massive amount turn up but you get to talk to most ,,,,
Banter ,,bikes ,,,beer ,,and a bonfire to me thats the best ,,,,
old skool maybe but sometimes people forget you can have a great time without spending a fortune
just to add the last event i was involved with was the Malvern rally inc the great tommy sleep out ,
just sent off £600 to the royal british legion ind ,,
that was what we raise every penny ,,(just rounded up )
Last edited:
TikTok
Committee
Well, unless things have changed, we are in the position of having no Region come forward to host the 2025 International.
Could it be the cost? They were cheaper (Devon anyone?!) for the Regions in the past, but Naseby was £20k to put on, and there will be a similar cost for Region 5 this year.
Perhaps now that the Club is on a better financial even keel, the committee would consider going back to a fixed date, at a fixed site - and running it - now tickets in advance seems to be the norm.
As someone who in any year attends between 7 - 9 of our Regional rallies (plus International, SR, Fed and non-Harley, etc) - I have over the years seen a decline in numbers at most of our Regional ones. IoW and Yorkshire seem to be the only ones bucking the trend. And perhaps that is the inevitability of an ageing demographic, who will now find it harder or an impossibility to camp.
Like DJ has mentioned elsewhere, I have 50+ biking years behind me and with a bit of luck may have another 5-10 ahead of me. Arthritic fingers crossed!
I shall therefore take Keith's advice and try and attend as many Regional rallies this year as I can - and ongoing, for as many years as is practicable.
