EUTHANASIA

devon.john

devon.john

Club Member
i see they are debating euthanasia in Scotland ,,
over the last 3 weeks i have been visiting a frend in hospital ,
he is in palliative care so its immanent ,,,
i have managed to visit everyday now for a hour or more and seen him failing to a point now i dont think he knows i am there ,,,he has been moved to a nursing home ,,but i i say its only time
everyday i see him i think why would you let this happened ,,,, if it was a dog you would release it from its pain ,,,,
i hope when its my time things might have changed as i dont want to end up this way ,,,,
food for thought ,
ps as i am not a member of his family ..but one of his only visitors if anything happened to him or it was imminent i would not know ,,,,
 
With you all the way on this one John, there is only so much that can be done with morphine, then the slow slide.
I don't want that to happen to me either.
I remember an uncle in the late 60's being advised that when the pain got too much for him, to let the nurse know.
He came to that point, saw his family for the last time, then "slipped away" that night.
It was fairly common then, but not now ----
 
Oldguy said:
I remember an uncle in the late 60's being advised that when the pain got too much for him, to let the nurse know.
He came to that point, saw his family for the last time, then "slipped away" that night.
It was fairly common then, but not now ----
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Sadly, were not allowed to do that now.
You wouldnt keep an animal alive and prolong its suffering.

All these religious do gooders should shut up until they have worked in palliative care. They would sing a different tune then, i can tell you.

Freedom of choice for all, and not just the ones that can fly to dignitas.
 
devon.john said:
ps as i am not a member of his family ..but one of his only visitors if anything happened to him or it was imminent i would not know ,,,,
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John, speak to the nurse in charge. If people have little family, and few visitors, you can leave a contact number, and ask to be called if and when. Your not asking to be included in care decisions, just to be told. We try and do our best to accomodate. No one should die alone, but sadly, most seem to slip sway when visitors have just left, or gone out to the loo.
 
My uncle died from Asbestosis, although he was at home & not alone his last few months were awful. Bed ridden & just basically pumped with pain killers. He died a slow & painful death, those months were also a drain on my Aunty

But then I saw a documentary years ago about some guy who went abroad to end his own life. He was given some kind of drink & was told he could not drink anything afterwards, he did not pass away peacefully the drink kicked in he seemed to be in quite a bit of pain.

So I'm kinda on the fence
 
Jay Wild said:
My uncle died from Asbestosis, although he was at home & not alone his last few months were awful. Bed ridden & just basically pumped with pain killers. He died a slow & painful death, those months were also a drain on my Aunty

But then I saw a documentary years ago about some guy who went abroad to end his own life. He was given some kind of drink & was told he could not drink anything afterwards, he did not pass away peacefully the drink kicked in he seemed to be in quite a bit of pain.

So I'm kinda on the fence
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understand Jay ,,, but Brian has gone down hill over the month i have been visiting ,
down to 5st not eating just wants to go ,,,, not really there now ,,,
i talk to him but no response ,,
will keep visiting to the end ,,,
 
I understand the 'reasonable ' defence of contentious policies, as in the policy, its implications and impacts being understood by a 'reasonable person', or enacted by the same. But as we've seen with the Tavistock clinic in this country, the defence is shredded when the people charged with the discharge of the policy are not 'reasonable'. Then you get 10 year olds being given puberty blockers or undergoing "corrective" surgery. The ends do not justify the means, well meaning as they might seem to be on the surface.

For an example of how the euthenasia debate is playing out elsewhere in the world, see this:

www.spiked-online.com

Now Canada is euthanising autistic people

A father has discovered he is powerless to stop his perfectly healthy daughter being killed.
www.spiked-online.com www.spiked-online.com

We'll get to the same place eventually. Do we trust an organisation like the NHS, who, despite being the most diverse big employer in the world, sees fit to spend money on diversity managers (or refer to 'chest feeders' as I saw on an electronic noticeboard in my local hospital not 5 days ago), or be a little confused about who has a cervix or a prostate?

Or politicians, who oversee this lethal cocktail of pathological introspection?

Be careful what you wish for. Canada is tomorrow.
 
i have been reading this with interest.

As you know (or not know), I live in the Netherlands, where we have been having a euthanasia law for a very long time. It basically comes to this... when you are very ill but still sound of mind (yeah.. define sound) you can opt for euthanasia. In a nutshell: 2 seperate gp's have to sign it off and the thing is done like putting down a dog: one seringe to sleep, the other to stop your heart. It has to be documented very well, hence the two doctors who have to be in agreement. Trust me, the process is a lot more complicated then i just described, but it very basically comes down to that.

There is also palliative.. which is not a form of euthanasia. When -often- elderly are so very ill that they would be terminally ill and reasonably die within two weeks, family and or even the person itself can opt for palliative. A gp is not allowed to suggest it! Palliative is basically.. going to sleep permanantly and deprive food and drink and the body gives up within 2 to 7 days, usually 3 or 4. Its painless and very human. The medication (usually intravenous with a pump, but sometimes nasal spray) is given by professionals like NHS or homecare staff. I have coached my clients and their families in these processes and given said medication, it is quite a peacefull process and family and friends have the time to say their goodbyes, it is believed the person sleeping can hear you.

Some might feel offended or disgusted by these methods and feel it is taking a life or even murdering someone! I do not feel that way, but I can understand if people do.

And John... wishing you much strength, this is not easy to go through.
 
hamilton said:
These things always start with good intentions .
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And sometimes lead to abuse.

My older sister, now a widow and living alone in Scotland, was until a year ago quite sprightly walking her dog daily. Then her hip began holding her back (as does mine to a degree). She is 91. Then she had a series of falls indoors. Found on several occasions by neighbours, she was admitted to Raigmore Hospital in Inverness. They say she had suffered a few minor strokes. Currently she has suffered more falls within hospital, and they are seeking a bed in Aviemore hospital. There is a waiting list. No prizes for guessing how long. She is adamant that she want just to go home (Aviemore), but that looks like a non-starter, as no caring facilities are available which leaves close family to carry the burden of care, and it's intensive - we have had that with my 'in laws' until they passed. It's no fun, and the last thing either of us would want is to be a burden on our children. Though my sister is feisty, and wants nothing to do with 'care homes'. Tough call.
 
I worked with adults with special needs, some of whom have very severe disabilities of the mind and body. A few live in a little cycle where they repeat words phrases and sentences again and again, stuck in a circle of life, occasionally it seems they are struggling with anxiety anger or fear. Often self harming, crying or being violent.

One chap for example, about 30, ate the goldfish in the tank, so we removed it, he then started eating bits of his mattress, so we got one he could not eat, he found a latex glove and ate that, which got stuck so he had to have a stoma, which I emptied three times a day. He would bang his head on the door frame, so we put a boxing hat on him when he got stressed, he also just repeated the same sentence all day every day.

However, I did my best to see to his and others daily needs, washing eating dressing, giving metal stimulation and exercise. Not just me but a team of staff, the majority of which were on work permits because there were no applicants for the work.

But with those individuals every now and then a reaction would come about, as a response, a smile or laughter, or even a joke. Their family woukd visit too, mum dad brother sister…

Most of these individuals with complex needs are in homes funded by the local authority, pay for me and staff was the minimum wage, and often 12 hour shifts.

But what to do? Prolong a life of misery? How does one know how that individual feels? Who really has the right to choose if someone lives or dies?

Sure we are not talking about someone who has a degenerative illness, but the point I am making is that human life is seen by many to be something that should be kept going as long as possible. That perhaps is why euthanasia is the subject of such limited use around the world, Moreover, euthanasia has been also been used for very wrong reasons.

So can we really draw the line, and effectively kill people with their consent or otherwise?
 
read your post Michael ,,, as you i do voluntary work at a chiders hospice ,
like you say how can anyone decide on there quality of life ,

but do think with modern medicine we can prolong someones life ,,that in the past would have not survived ,,
now it comes to are we doing the right thing prolonging life ,,,
as to my frend i have visited everyday now for nearly a month and will continue till the end ,,,
he is on partite care ,,,so no recovery just time ,,,,
he doesn't want tobe here but he hangs on ,,, i help feed him mid day but hes not really eating ,,
not a way he or most of us would like to end up like ,,,
 
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