General Very old people wanted...

C

ChrisOfTheOT

Club Member
Morning all - I need some help. I am researching post-war Harley stuff and am up to the dawn of the Sportster. I have found that, by the early 1970s, there were only three H-D dealers in Britain. Before that, Warr's of London was (more or less) the only dealer in all of Europe - and they didn't sell new Harley's after the war, only refurbished ex-service bikes.

So, if you're really, really old - older than me, even - and you were riding motorised bicycles after WWII, what did you ride? Since new Harley's were crazy-expensive here (and impossible to find) how is it that there was still a Harley fan base in Britain? Were you a fan? Did you used to work in a dealership - or did your dad? If you have any 1950s or 60s H-D related information, or just some general chat, I'd love to hear from you.

I have several motorcycle books - Triumph, Indian and Harley - but they're light on the history I'm interested in, or they're (obviously) American focused. I'm really a writer but getting published is difficult & expensive, so I use YouTube.

So, thanks in anticipation!

Cheers,

Chris
 
There was little awareness or interest in Harleys here before WW1 then after that war army surplus machines began to turn up. The factory opened an official HD HQ in Newman Street, London W1 which stayed until WW2. After WW2 there was once again loads of army surplus machines and several dealers came about, Marble Arch Motor Supplies was one I recall and Fred Warr, after his return from National Service (RAF fitter) tried to get his dad to specialise their family all brand shop on Harleys. Dad said no so Fred opened his own shop round the corner, Waterford Road Fulham off Kings Rd, as a HD specialist. When Fred inherited the Kings Rd shop they both became HD shops. Fred was recognised by HD as the official concessionaire in the fifties, outliving the handful of other shops who had mainly just supplied WL parts - Fred often doing work for them, usually in exchange for spares. Fred lost his concessionaire status when HD once again opened an official GB HQ in Old Burlington Street, Mayfair London in 1973. Then loads of shops opened, many bolstered by the Italian built two-strokes range, can't think of any still around apart from Warrs. When Old Burlington St closed in the late seventies the well known Ducati dealer Mick Walkers became agent for the two-strokes and Luton shop Coburn & Hughes became agents for the twins. The two-strokes became Cagiva from 1979 and later in the eighties C&H gave up, one of their staff becoming the agent. HD returned yet again, based in Brackley near Banbury until now based in Oxford.
When our club was formed in Feb 1949 the huge bulk of bikes were ex-army Forty-fives, a few twenties twins, a handful of thirties singles and twins and some knuckles and Big Twin flatheads. New bikes were incredibly rare, a few ex-Belgium Police Duo-Glides were imported so only into the seventies were there any large numbers of new bikes. Warrs used to have a photo of the Kings Road shop in 1973 with Freds last batch of new bikes as concessionaire displayed in the current shop - only about twenty bikes in all. To give you some perspective, I became club editor in 1977 and my first 'Quin we printed 90 copies to supply the members, a copy to each dealer and some spares for new joiners! When I look at pix from the early to late seventies at least half the bikes were ElectraGlides and sidecars were quite common. By the start of the eighties Sportsters and SuperGlides dominated and pretty much have ever since - or at least their offspring have. In the seventies and eighties two Harleys wouldn't pass each other without stopping, now you wave at one and he stares at you wondering who you are.
 
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Paul P. said:
...Fred Warr, after his return from National Service (RAF fitter) tried to get his dad to specialise their family all brand shop on Harleys. Dad said no so Fred opened his own shop round the corner, Waterford Road Fulham off Kings Rd, as a HD specialist. When Fred inherited the Kings Rd shop they both became HD shops. Fred was recognised by HD as the official concessionaire in the fifties, outliving the handful of other shops who had mainly just supplied WL parts - Fred often doing work for them, usually in exchange for spares.

... When Burlington Rd closed in the late seventies the well known Ducati dealer Mick Walkers became agent for the two-strokes and Luton shop Coburn & Hughes became agents for the twins. The two-strokes became Cagiva from 1979 and later in the eighties C&H gave up, one of their staff becoming the agent.
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Paul, I can't thank you enough for your reply (but THANK YOU anyway!). Do you know the Warrs personally, or did you work for them? Their story would be a fascinating one to tell...

Paul P. said:
...When our club was formed in Feb 1949 the huge bulk of bikes were ex-army Forty-fives, a few twenties twins, a handful of thirties singles and twins and some knuckles and Big Twin flatheads. New bikes were incredibly rare, a few ex-Belgium Police Duo-Glides were imported...
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Those Belgium police bikes are interesting Paul: who imported them? I had assumed, from what you say, that Fred Warr would be selling them, but on re-reading, perhaps someone else sold them?

Paul P. said:
...To give you some perspective, I became club editor in 1977 and my first 'Quin we printed 90 copies to supply the members, a copy to each dealer and some spares for new joiners! When I look at pix from the early to late seventies at least half the bikes were ElectraGlides and sidecars were quite common... In the seventies and eighties two Harleys wouldn't pass each other without stopping...
Click to expand...

When I first saw your post, Paul, all I noticed was the 'Archivist' label. That, sir, must be about the best job in the world! Years ago I saw a job advert for an archivist for a building firm and have spent the last 20 years regretting that I never applied. But, an H-D flavoured archivist: wow, I could lick you right now...

I shall have to speak to Anna about joining 'officially' because your Harleyquin magazine looks interesting. I've never seen one, except on eBay (!), is there a link to a list of contents for a recent issue, or similar? I'm keen to have a peek. Was the magazine available before 1977? (At this point, I am looking at pre-AMF times specifically.)

When did you get your first Harley Paul? And (dare I say it), why? Back in the 60s & 70s, the Harley reputation was hardly positive...

I'll PM you too Paul. But thanks again for replying: it's fascinating stuff!

Cheers,

Chris
 
ChrisOfTheOT your Harleyquin magazine looks interesting. I've never seen one said:
There is a link for club members. The earliest I have is 2011.
Here's one you can click on and download
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Save some of that enthusiasm for the long haul Chris! No have never worked for the Warrs (answered the phone for the spares man a couple of times in the Kings Rd shop, does that count..?) but their long serving spares man has a lengthy interview/feature coming up in our winter club mag. I do know some of those ex-Belgium bikes passed through Fred Warrs hands but I'll have to ask him if they were all brought in by him or just individuals. I started at 17 with a 1974 Z-90 (90cc Italian built HD) and joined the club right then but there are a fair number of members who joined before me still around, though not usually on this site. For myself I fell in love with a cartoon police Electra in one of my kids comics, Lion I think and the character was called Zip Nolan (google that). Unfortunately you missed our club founder who, though he lived in Australia, took a keen interest in keeping in touch with "his" club - he died a few years back after a very happy and active life. You may come across old photos of him (and others) from the fifties. The club mag goes back to 1951 though it was never the magnificent tome it is at present.
 
There were other H-D dealers throughout the country in the mid 1970's. I bought my first Electra Glide, new, from a shop called Marriotts in Birkenhead on the Wirral. I must admit they were not very good as H-D dealers, but I got mine with a px for a Norton Commando. After I bought it, they seemed to stop selling them, so maybe it was a one off. I recall them having a couple of the smaller engined bikes, but only the one 1200cc.
 
I’ve just acquired a spares and price list for Fred Fearnly Ltd, dated 15-11-48, of Ashton Old Road, Manchester, describing themselves as specialists in HD and Indian parts since 1946.

The list only contains 45 parts, with delights such as a new complete motor for £25, or a new boxed frame for £5, and how we’d love a new linkert for a shade over £2!

if anyone’s interested, I’ll see if I can scan it and post here

jon
 
Hi summers, I’ll see what I can do ?

Paul P, I’ve received a pm from you, but I don’t believe it’s meant for me.

cheers-Jon
 
Should be, I did send one (included my compliments about your You Tube video) - by the way, as I have you here I forgot to mention - the standard see-saw HD clutch pedal is not a suicide clutch, that is only when the foot clutch operates like a car pedal (only the Servi-Car ever had one like that from the factory). The classic HD foot clutch always had friction pads to make it stay (if set up correct) where you put it...at least until vibration catches you by surprise!

UPDATE - looks like you were right, sorry!!
 
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Hi

In the Club Members Beer Tent, there is a sticky thread (6th down from the top)
called Harleyquins through the years.

Which has PDFs and some pics of old Harleyquin issues; I think starting from 1967.

Perhaps Tom can give you access to the thread.
 
TomG said:
I was forgetting that non club members don't have that permission. Try again
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Morning Tom - still no joy. It won't matter too much as I'm aiming to join 'officially' anyway. Thanks for looking though - I'm very keen to get a look.

Cheers,

Chris
 
Paul P. said:
Save some of that enthusiasm for the long haul Chris! No have never worked for the Warrs... but their long serving spares man has a lengthy interview/feature coming up in our winter club mag. I do know some of those ex-Belgium bikes passed through Fred Warrs hands... I started at 17 with a 1974 Z-90 (90cc Italian built HD) and joined the club right then but there are a fair number of members who joined before me still around, though not usually on this site... I fell in love with a cartoon police Electra in one of my kids comics, Lion I think and the character was called Zip Nolan (google that). Unfortunately you missed our club founder who... died a few years back after a very happy and active life... The club mag goes back to 1951 though it was never the magnificent tome it is at present.
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Morning Paul - that's sage advice about the 'long haul', thank you Sensei. I am keen to read the article about the 'Warr's spares man'. It must be great to be able to tap into all those priceless years of knowledge and experience. (When I grow up, I'd like to be an archivist too...) You mentioned that other older members are 'not on this site': does that mean they're on Facebook? If so, that's a shame 'cos I really hate Facebook and, although I had an account for a few months, I got sick of it so deleted it. I was a member of this club's FB group (and several H-D groups), but the hate of FB was much stronger than the willingness to put up with it. Here, it's much more betterer, innit?

I have now dutifully Googled 'Zip Nolan'. Not sure what an American highway patrol guy was doing in Blighty, but I can see the appeal.

It's a shame the club founder is no longer with us though. I bet he had some stories... I imagine he's featured in the magazine over the years? Are there any copies of those early magazines available to view - however 'un-magnificent' they may be?

Thanks again Paul,

Chris
 
Batman said:
There were other H-D dealers throughout the country in the mid 1970's. I bought my first Electra Glide, new, from a shop called Marriotts in Birkenhead on the Wirral. I must admit they were not very good as H-D dealers, but I got mine with a px for a Norton Commando. After I bought it, they seemed to stop selling them, so maybe it was a one off. I recall them having a couple of the smaller engined bikes, but only the one 1200cc.
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Morning Batman - I Googled Mariotts and got this. They may be the same dealer, although they are only 'occasionally Harley-Davidson' nowadays.

Cheers,

Chris
 
JonB said:
I’ve just acquired a spares and price list for Fred Fearnly Ltd, dated 15-11-48, of Ashton Old Road, Manchester, describing themselves as specialists in HD and Indian parts since 1946.

The list only contains 45 parts, with delights such as a new complete motor for £25, or a new boxed frame for £5, and how we’d love a new linkert for a shade over £2!

if anyone’s interested, I’ll see if I can scan it and post here

jon
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I'd like to see it Jon - it'd be an interesting post.

Cheers,

Chris
 
Paul P. said:
Should be, I did send one (included my compliments about your You Tube video) - by the way, as I have you here I forgot to mention - the standard see-saw HD clutch pedal is not a suicide clutch, that is only when the foot clutch operates like a car pedal (only the Servi-Car ever had one like that from the factory). The classic HD foot clutch always had friction pads to make it stay (if set up correct) where you put it...at least until vibration catches you by surprise!
Click to expand...

Hi Paul - I think you sent Jon the PM meant for me. (I still haven't worked out where the PMs are!)

Thank you for pointing out the difference between 'suicide clutch' and the H-D alternative. I had no idea there was a difference, and it even makes me think that (one day) I might be brave enough to try and ride an old Knucklehead, or WL. Maybe they're not too difficult to ride...? I'll remember the cultch information in future videos (& books, hopefully).

Cheers,

Chris
 
FXSTC Dave said:
Hi

In the Club Members Beer Tent, there is a sticky thread (6th down from the top)
called Harleyquins through the years.

Which has PDFs and some pics of old Harleyquin issues; I think starting from 1967.

Perhaps Tom can give you access to the thread.
Click to expand...

Ooh, I hope so. Tom - is it possible? (I still can't get the PDF you linked to - but I suppose when I've paid my subs, it'll all work?)

Cheers,

Chris
 
ChrisOfTheOT said:
Ooh, I hope so. Tom - is it possible? (I still can't get the PDF you linked to - but I suppose when I've paid my subs, it'll all work?)

Cheers,

Chris
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Hi Chris

I can only give permission by a group so anyone in the 'Registered Users' group would be able to see them. When you pay your subs let me know cos your upgrade to club member isn't automatic in the software - it has to be verified manually against the membership list.

Also, those Quins being talked about in the lists in the forum still bear the old domian name so don't work straight away - they will if you know how to change the address in the browser bar - so I suppose I'll have to find time to go through them.
 
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