Rick
Affiliates Clerk
If you live in the country outside the over populated urban jungle - relying purely on public transport (as the global elite would like) is restricting our freedom to travel.
Where will we be in 20 years?
- Thread starter michael_dinwiddy
- Start date
If you live in the country outside the over populated urban jungle - relying purely on public transport (as the global elite would like) is restricting our freedom to travel.
Paul P.
H-DRCGB Archivist
...and in addition to that very valid point, public transport will NEVER be sorted out while driven everywhere politicians decide about it. The real solution for public transport has been bloody obvious to all of us for many decades - cheap reliable and accessible. Doesn't take a brain surgeon to know it.....
devon.john
Club Member
You forget imposable ,,,,rural areas will never be able to supply any transport that would work ,,,
michael_dinwiddy
Club Member
Here are the results for voluntary survey of the age of those who use our National Club FB Group site.
The survey was taken over a 4 day period (12th-15th April 2024). Of the 5.400 members of the group 485 individuals ticked a box, the results are shown as percentages.
The actual numbers are:
under 20 1
20-29 2
30-39 16
40-49 28
50-59 140
60-69 251
70-79 44
over 80 3
There were a few that are obviously incorrect, for example both the 20-29's are known to me and unless they have had a very hard life I can say they are over 30.
The use of the FB group was for two reasons, firstly to set up a poll is easy peasy, and secondly there are sufficient numbers to get a result that is loosely viable. However it is important to bear in mind that those voted are members of the group, but not necessary members of our club. It is a fair guess that many have a Harley or if not are interested in them.
The largest group is the 60-69 age (nearly half of those who voted) followed by the 50-59 age group. Lump those together and that constitutes around 4/5ths of those that participated. 70-79 age are almost the same in number to those below 40.
The survey was only a stab in the dark, but we can see some trends that may give us some idea of the general pattern of those owning or interested in Harleys and the H-DRCGB through the Facebook platform.
The survey remains open, and I have linked this thread to it. Please feel free to commont here or there or both, but remember this is open to the general public... be nice.
www.facebook.com
The survey was taken over a 4 day period (12th-15th April 2024). Of the 5.400 members of the group 485 individuals ticked a box, the results are shown as percentages.
The actual numbers are:
under 20 1
20-29 2
30-39 16
40-49 28
50-59 140
60-69 251
70-79 44
over 80 3
There were a few that are obviously incorrect, for example both the 20-29's are known to me and unless they have had a very hard life I can say they are over 30.
The use of the FB group was for two reasons, firstly to set up a poll is easy peasy, and secondly there are sufficient numbers to get a result that is loosely viable. However it is important to bear in mind that those voted are members of the group, but not necessary members of our club. It is a fair guess that many have a Harley or if not are interested in them.
The largest group is the 60-69 age (nearly half of those who voted) followed by the 50-59 age group. Lump those together and that constitutes around 4/5ths of those that participated. 70-79 age are almost the same in number to those below 40.
The survey was only a stab in the dark, but we can see some trends that may give us some idea of the general pattern of those owning or interested in Harleys and the H-DRCGB through the Facebook platform.
The survey remains open, and I have linked this thread to it. Please feel free to commont here or there or both, but remember this is open to the general public... be nice.
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Degsy
Club Member
Changing eras. It might also need to be considered, that young men pre first world war were still living in the age of horse drawn conveyances. Motorcycling was a new phenomenum and their introduction would have been influenced by the machines that were used during that conflict, and that many did not return. Those that did enjoyed some freedom of transport that was developing, but which also saw many manufacturers going to the wall. The depression years were hard for everyone, but the desire for new models caused manufacturers to take on more risks, and so development advanced if only slowly. The sidecar became the people/family carrier, for a while. Then another conflict taking its toll on life. Those who came back needed cheap forms of transport, the motorcycle supplied it. Then came periods of time when cheap second-hand cars of the thirties and forties took on the means of getting about, though the children of that generation sought a form of excitement - Speedway! And motorcycling got into the blood of many, as it did with the Baby Boomers on apprenticeship schemes with little money but big ideas. Then along came the Japanese bikes, and 'we never had it so good' with rear view mirrors, flashing indicators and fewer oil leaks. Time marched on, and for a while the battle of the big British bikes parried with the Japs, but we never really got the machines that could have been produced due to political wranglings and corporat take-overs, the Japs cleaned up.
Then came fashion. Dolly Birds, short skirts, Mods, and better wages saw small cars take off for many, ousting the dirty oily bikes to caff forecourts and trade-ins for four wheels as wages improved and families grew. By this time the 'die-hards' clung on, keeping the old irons for weekends while keeping the family happy with a motor. The corner shop and the caff were swept away by the supermarket and the 'wine bar', bikes were for a receding hairline generation, living on nostalgia, with the exception of those who got involved in engineering and making things go faster or just better. But in the main, the Hot Hatch, the Granada, the Sierra were first considerations for many.
Then came the Born Again Bikers, hacking off down the roads on machines with more power than the riders could handle when wages improved. Age for some brought inheritances, or successful business ventures, and the dreams of youth became realities, while the youth took to Twist 'n Go, or a Golf GTI, 'rides' got 'pimped', and legislation became a dirty word - still is, and ongoing. The future? That belongs to those who can afford it.
The real essence of motorcycling has, and will always belong to those fascinated with machines that can be dis-assembled, rebuilt, and kept running out of inginuity and mechanical accomplishment. The rest will need to rely on some computer geek to keep their cages on the road. Which brings the thought : cheap small bikes economic to run might just fulfill a need of the mortgage strapped, parking fees constrained, needing to cut costs. Who knows.
Then came fashion. Dolly Birds, short skirts, Mods, and better wages saw small cars take off for many, ousting the dirty oily bikes to caff forecourts and trade-ins for four wheels as wages improved and families grew. By this time the 'die-hards' clung on, keeping the old irons for weekends while keeping the family happy with a motor. The corner shop and the caff were swept away by the supermarket and the 'wine bar', bikes were for a receding hairline generation, living on nostalgia, with the exception of those who got involved in engineering and making things go faster or just better. But in the main, the Hot Hatch, the Granada, the Sierra were first considerations for many.
Then came the Born Again Bikers, hacking off down the roads on machines with more power than the riders could handle when wages improved. Age for some brought inheritances, or successful business ventures, and the dreams of youth became realities, while the youth took to Twist 'n Go, or a Golf GTI, 'rides' got 'pimped', and legislation became a dirty word - still is, and ongoing. The future? That belongs to those who can afford it.
The real essence of motorcycling has, and will always belong to those fascinated with machines that can be dis-assembled, rebuilt, and kept running out of inginuity and mechanical accomplishment. The rest will need to rely on some computer geek to keep their cages on the road. Which brings the thought : cheap small bikes economic to run might just fulfill a need of the mortgage strapped, parking fees constrained, needing to cut costs. Who knows.
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Rick
Affiliates Clerk
I have said it many times, the glory days of motorcycling have been and gone in this country. What we have now keeping many new bike sales sustained is nostalga from a ever decreasing demographic. There are many reasons (as pointed out by Degsy) for the decline, compounded by the bureaucratic and expense of young riders getting a licence and the added ball ache of testing stations being too few in number - for many its easily a 100 mile round trip.
Add to the mix the ever restrictive political legislations, green agenda, high insurance costs and general economic decline in disposable income year on year - the situation is not going to improve the desirability to get a motorbike.
The final nail in the coffin for me is the planned end of new combustible engine machines - batteries will never replicate the joy, noise, smell and acceleration sound of an engine, in particular the large capacity v twin configuration we all own.
Finally the idea that clubs like ours will flourish and continue to increase in membership numbers over the next 20 years is wishful thinking in my opinion. In many ways we are like a retirement home for motorcycle enthusiasts, let's just make the most of what time we have left and let the future take care of itself.
Add to the mix the ever restrictive political legislations, green agenda, high insurance costs and general economic decline in disposable income year on year - the situation is not going to improve the desirability to get a motorbike.
The final nail in the coffin for me is the planned end of new combustible engine machines - batteries will never replicate the joy, noise, smell and acceleration sound of an engine, in particular the large capacity v twin configuration we all own.
Finally the idea that clubs like ours will flourish and continue to increase in membership numbers over the next 20 years is wishful thinking in my opinion. In many ways we are like a retirement home for motorcycle enthusiasts, let's just make the most of what time we have left and let the future take care of itself.
I know some won't agree but before I fancied a bike I was into the music which for many up and coming bikers was Rock Music. I was 13yrs old listening to Black Sabbath and going to concerts where many leather clad rock fans turned up on Bonnie's, Z900s plus other motorcycles and it was this that grabbed my attention yes the Greaser/Grebo scene in the mid 70s this was also how all of my mates became bikers. So we move on to the present day and most young folk fly about in hatchbacks with dance music banging out of their tin box, Rock music doesn't have the audience it once did and the attraction of the leather clad bikers isn't of interest to them as it was to me and my mates. Yes not all bikers are into Rock music and that's up to them but everyone I knew who started out on a 50cc moped and frequented the village Rock disco's in the 70s were into the full scene to us it was a statement not just a mode of transport
kiwidave
Registered User
Very hard to argue with Rick's comment.
In 20yrs the club will still be here but i predict the vast majority of members will STILL be over-50s.
Generalising here, but modern Harleys have not been a young person's desire for decades.
New-bike H-D buyers are older and with empty nests, spending their kids' inheritance to live a long-held dream. People seem to age into Harleys, that is, if they have any sort of passion for brand X motorcycles when younger.
I have two adult sons (22 and 34) who have never shown any interest in two wheels at any stage, despite Dad having a Harley since both were babies. They don't know anyone in their peer group who rides.
The hipsters with the Pan/Shovel chops, gridiron helmets, Z bars and full-sleeve tattoos are a minority (global) fad. They're Down Under too. But good for them. They have always existed, just in different uniforms, and they will keep older bikes going even when they shed the uniform.
I'm done with buying H-Ds myself, I have my two dream bikes. Also, I like the Livewire and I am enjoying watching the Pan America catch on. I don't worry about the future of motorcycling because I have no control over it. But I have a suspicion that the electric vehicle revolution and the eternal need for cheap transport across Asia might somehow combine to save Harley-Davidson Inc from certain death as we baby boomers die off and the appeal of the classic Harleys dies with us.
In 20yrs the club will still be here but i predict the vast majority of members will STILL be over-50s.
Generalising here, but modern Harleys have not been a young person's desire for decades.
New-bike H-D buyers are older and with empty nests, spending their kids' inheritance to live a long-held dream. People seem to age into Harleys, that is, if they have any sort of passion for brand X motorcycles when younger.
I have two adult sons (22 and 34) who have never shown any interest in two wheels at any stage, despite Dad having a Harley since both were babies. They don't know anyone in their peer group who rides.
The hipsters with the Pan/Shovel chops, gridiron helmets, Z bars and full-sleeve tattoos are a minority (global) fad. They're Down Under too. But good for them. They have always existed, just in different uniforms, and they will keep older bikes going even when they shed the uniform.
I'm done with buying H-Ds myself, I have my two dream bikes. Also, I like the Livewire and I am enjoying watching the Pan America catch on. I don't worry about the future of motorcycling because I have no control over it. But I have a suspicion that the electric vehicle revolution and the eternal need for cheap transport across Asia might somehow combine to save Harley-Davidson Inc from certain death as we baby boomers die off and the appeal of the classic Harleys dies with us.
watchman
Club Member
Amen to that
devon.john
Club Member
As you might know i am involved with ROSPA,
Its surprising how many are there that have come into biking later in life ,,,
talking to them you realise that many are in the 40,50s but have only had a bike a few years .
so yes there are a few coming into are world but ,,,,not on Harleys
Its surprising how many are there that have come into biking later in life ,,,
talking to them you realise that many are in the 40,50s but have only had a bike a few years .
so yes there are a few coming into are world but ,,,,not on Harleys
michael_dinwiddy
Club Member
Im not sure if thats true, a rather romantic view, maybe for the generation that had points & condensers.. but I would say the vast majority of motorcyclists haven’t a clue or are not in the least bit interested in how a motorcycle works, but ride for the fun of the power agility and possibly because of traffic congestion in urban areas. Some also do ‘live the biker lifestyle’ and seek brotherhood in a bike Club. But most just don’t get the spanners out, which one rarely has to with any bike nowadays.
@kiwidave’s comment regarding H-D and the Asian market is very relevant I believe too.
But we have larger than ever numbers in the Club, which others also suggest may well be because 50 somethings are buying Harleys as it was always their dream… as referenced by others. @SteveW65 & @kiwidave .
So perhaps its not the young we look to if we want to increase our membership but those aged 50 and above, supporting the results of the little survey.
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devon.john
Club Member
One of the reasons i prefer older bikes because you CAN work on them
to me a big part of ownership is understanding how things work and how to fix or improve
many be and old dinosaur but time and time again ,,who do they come to with a problem ??
to me a big part of ownership is understanding how things work and how to fix or improve
many be and old dinosaur but time and time again ,,who do they come to with a problem ??