60mph front brake failure 06 Dyna

Re: 60mph front brake failure 06 Dyna

What!? The guy from VOSA said what?! That losing brake pad friction material is not a cause for concern? So they're not even going to investigate or instigate a follow up!?!?

If you're going to pursue it, focus on the issue of actual brake pad loss. The delamination issue is a red herring - however, the loss of friction material is not. Mention that the loss means a second or third pull of the brake lever to pump the brakes back up before the pad backing hits the disk - and the distance covered (lets say 0.7 sec reaction time, plus lets say 1.3 secs pumping time = 2 secs, at 30 mph = 44 feet per second = an additional 88 feet travelled before stopping. At 30 mph. Faster = longer.

Hardly good for when a child steps out from behind a parked car, is it!! And don't get distracted by the "well a good rider would have anticipated that....." argument that might just get thrown up.

I'm appalled.... and embarrassed for suggesting you contact them. Many apologies for setting you off on that track.

However, if you want to pursue it you could write something along the lines you have here, send it to him and ask him to confirm in writing that it is an accurate recording of what he said. I suspect the phone conversation might translate someting along the lines of:

"Thank you for bringing the matter to our attention. However, because the pads are not original equipment and the delamination has not yet reached the stage at which total detachment is likely there is little we can do to pursue your particular case. However, we are keen to find out if there have been any cases where total and sudden detachment of the friction material has taken place, particularly during braking. If you, or anyone on the forum to which you refer, have suffered such a sudden brake failure, please contact us or your local VOSA office, the address of which can be found on any MoT test station notice board. Thank you for bringing the matter to our attention."

............. same message, different tone and outcome. And no total bloody rubbish about being ultimately able to chuck away the whole pad and use the caliper pistons direct on the disk. Road safety?!?
 
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Re: 60mph front brake failure 06 Dyna

Don't be embarrassed Gib. I was going to do it anyway, and actually started off with a notificaton via their website, which resulted in them sending me a form to fill in, which I then sent off complete with pads.
Their service has been quick and efficient, but of course I don't agree with what I have been told over the phone, and a phone record is not at all satisfactory, as you say. it would perhaps have carried more weight if the others who had reported total loss of material had also sent their pads in to VOSA, but although I did point them to the forum, any data on there is just hearsay, without the actual material in front of them.
I had thought that they would take it more seriously, but obviously had got the wrong end of the stick from the start, especially as he was trying to tell me that my bike had done 28,000 miles, and seemed to be implying that it might have been a good idea for me to inspect the brake pads over that time. Of course, I've not only had them out several times for routine maintenance and inspection of other parts, I've also replaced them twice... Needless to say, the form I filled in circled the box that said the pads were not original to the vehicle.
I had imagined that they might do more of a scientific investigation, perhaps cutting through the pads to inspect the substrate, carry out some analysis of the materials used, and the degraded faces. That's what we do when we get failures back for analysis, and it's hard to imagine why a government body, tasked with ensuring public safety, should be more cavalier about investigating degraded brake pads than we are about a failed heating element... From his description, all they have done is pass the pads around the office, and said, "What do you think of that?" with all saying there's no problem...
I have sent a text summarising their findings that the pads are not defective, and that they say it's OK to use them. We'll see if I get a response. Frankly, I don't have the motivation to take it any further now, so they win again. Beaten into submission by complete disinterest.
 
Re: 60mph front brake failure 06 Dyna

Are you in the AA or RAC? Might be worth a try. Only Biker MP I can think of is Hazel Blears from Salford. That said you are supposed to go through your own local MP.. I can understand you being pissed off but your fight may save a mates life. Anyway IMHO :wink: you are right and they are wrong.
 
Re: 60mph front brake failure 06 Dyna

Originally Posted by michael_dinwiddy
Its good to see that a representative from HD logs on.

Not to beat about the bush; What is the situation regarding the brake failure on the Dynas?

http://www.harley-davidson-hangout.c...e-06-dyna.html
Until I read the above thread I hadn't heard of this problem. I'm not aware of any Service Bulletins from H-D UK regarding this subject.

Being pedantic, I'm not a representative of H-D.

See http://www.harley-davidson-hangout....3-dealers-perspective-life-oxford-h-d-49.html


__________________
 
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Re: 60mph front brake failure 06 Dyna

You're right, Banquo, that the accounts of friction material loss reported on this website are heresay. However, no-one's talking about going to court - criminal or civil. What you're asking for is an investigation to be carried out. All that is needed is good reason to pursue it. IMHO the info in here is sufficient to ask questions and seek hard evidence, such as incidents where the friction material has come away. It'd be a bit of a shame if they only pursue it after one of their Vehicle Examiners (VEs) put in a report following a fatal accident.

Anyway, I understand your frustration. However, I'd still urge anyone who loses friction material in the way described at the beginning of this thread to contact their local VOSA office and get a VE out to look at it. Kicking it off like that is more likely to get off the ground.
 
Re: 60mph front brake failure 06 Dyna

Update: I asked for and got the pads back, and they came with a letter from VOSA, which I won't put up on here (yet), as I have already sent a response, with copy to my MP and to MAG's local Rep. No reply as yet, but I did make a robust response to what I see as being their cursory and cavalier approach to what I feel is an issue that could kill.
Will post if I get a response.
 
Re: 60mph front brake failure 06 Dyna

Great work Jake. More power to your elbow. Keep up the good fight.
 
Re: 60mph front brake failure 06 Dyna

Another update:
VOSA have been on to me by phone, and agreed to have the pads back for investigation by the manufacturer. I assume they mean Hayes and not Harley, but that needs clarification.
They have been in touch with H-D, who state they are not aware of any reports of brake pad failure.
This is the time for all of you who reported this on here to stick your heads above the parapet, and confirm that the problem was reported to an H-D dealer. Names and dates would be good.
It would be even better if these could be sent direct to VOSA in support of this notification, as they are maintaining their stance of "we don't have any reports about this", which is perfectly justifiable. You can't expect anyone to act on a single report.
If you are in a position to report dates, and to whom the problem was reported, let me know, and I'll give you the contact at VOSA.
Are there any others out there who may have had this problem, but haven't reported it on here?
Should a message go out to all forum users to ask for any reported failures? Should a message go in the 'quin?
For your interest and safety, the gentleman from VOSA continues to insist that an inspection of the pads is required every 2500 miles, and as part of the pre-ride inspection (both correct), and that this inspection is not confined simply to an inspection of the friction material thickness (not correct, as far as I can see). I am unclear what he (or Harley) are suggesting should be done at this inspection, but as the damage cannot be revealed without removing the pads from the bike, it would seem they are suggesting that this should be at best part of a 2500 mile inspection, and at worst, part of your pre-ride inspection.
No, I can't take that suggestion seriously either.
So, it's up to you. This can go ahead with my pads, which have not failed completely, but have deteriorated badly, or it can go ahead with documented accounts of everyone we know who has suffered a failure.
If that has been reported officially to a dealer, then dates and names would be very useful, as the Company claims to know nothing about it.
Everything on this forum is hearsay, and does nothing to support the case, so if you are concerned about this, and have a direct experience of it, now's the time to say so.
It's up to you...
 
Re: 60mph front brake failure 06 Dyna

Wow. So this VOSA guy strips his brakes to inspect his pads every time he goes out on his K Series BMW, and again routinely every 2500 miles. And if (having done this) he finds them in the same condition as those you sent him, he'd happily put them back in. And everyone should do this, regardless of their level of technical ability..... I think VOSA should check the contents of their office drinking water dispensers!!!

Anyway, putting all that aside, good work, Jake - your persistance seems to be paying off. As you say, they now need as many reports as possible, to be able to take any action.

Thanks for sticking with it.

Col.
 
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Re: 60mph front brake failure 06 Dyna

To be fair, he doesn't claim this is required on the BMW; only on the Harley. A courier comes tomorrow to collect pad, but it goes to Oxford, not Hayes...
Open minded, as always, I will await developments.
I'll send only one of the pads, just in case it gets lost.
 
Re: 60mph front brake failure 06 Dyna

Well done, Jake.

You ask:

banquo said:
Should a message go out to all forum users to ask for any reported failures? Should a message go in the 'quin?
Click to expand...

I'd have thought both were excellent ideas. And maybe a little "newsflash" on the home page linking to this.....

Cheers

Mike
 
Re: 60mph front brake failure 06 Dyna

Hi Jake, would just like to thank you for persevering with this, I doubt if many people would have been aware of this problem and its serious nature without you bringing it to our attention.

Hopefully you will stick with it and I don?t think you should underestimate the gratitude that is out there.
 
Re: 60mph front brake failure 06 Dyna

Old_Bob said:
You haven't wasted your time, you have brought this to the attention of us and that is appreciated.
Click to expand...

Sorry Bob, and others - it was the waste of time with officialdom to which I referred... :wink:
 
Re: 60mph front brake failure 06 Dyna

When I changed my front tyre recently I found that the front pad (not harley) had separated from the backing plate, I'll see if I can find out what brand they were. They appeared to have corroded between the friction material and the backing plate.

although the brakes did not fail at an time, there had been a noticeable reduction in performance.

With regard to the comments about checking pads before taking to the road - are the VOSA suggesting that you should take the wheels off the vehicle to check the pads, as there is a practicality problem once you get to 4 wheels and right up to 18 as on an artic.
 
Re: 60mph front brake failure 06 Dyna

Obviously this is still happening...saw it yesterday on a Region 17ers 06 Street Bob...:frown:
 
Re: 60mph front brake failure 06 Dyna

Some of us won't learn. On my way home from Enfield (attending a funeral of an old work colleague) thrashing down the A21 towards Coasterland and approaching a roundabout at Pembury, grabbed a fistful of front brake (cos I was going too fast innit) and went to help it with a bit of rear when the pedal went to the floor :eek: - nuffin there. Scary :hyper: although the front brake was good enough. When I stopped in a layby a bit further on up the road to have a shufty, sure enough the pad material had gone from the outboard brake and only the backing left. I pumped the pedal a few times and the metal backing then acted on the disc. (the guy from VOSA is right that the metal backing will give you some braking but I think it would soon fcuk the disc up) So I took it fairly steady for the rest of the way home :60277EB7B04744289C0

So it's not good enough just to have a quick look that there is enough meat left on the Pad. In future I will take the pads out and have a closer inspection. If it had been the front pad that went I would have been off road over the roundabout and an RK doesn't make a very good Moto Crosser :redface:
 
Re: 60mph front brake failure 06 Dyna

.... and in the meantime, no reply from H-DUK. Why am I not surprised by that?
I will send them a chaser, and an update.

Glad you're OK Bob....
 
Re: 60mph front brake failure 06 Dyna

Another update: got a phone call from VOSA out of the blue, to let me know they haven't forgotten. Seems they have two cases now, and the second set also has been sent to HDUK. Despite that, he says they are not expecting an answer from Harley until February, so don't hold your breath. Also, the main thrust of their investigation is to see if it's possible to inspect the pads on the vehicle, because as far as they are concerned, inspection of pads is part of the pre-ride checklist, and if they can be inspected without removal, that is their 'get out of jail free' card.
Unbelievable.
Strikes me, it can't possibly be possible on anything with fixed bags. Can you see the pads on the back of a Glide or RK?
 
Re: 60mph front brake failure 06 Dyna

Also, the main thrust of their investigation is to see if it's possible to inspect the pads on the vehicle, because as far as they are concerned, inspection of pads is part of the pre-ride checklist
Click to expand...

Surely that's not the point.......:frown:
This shouldn't be happening in the first place!!!:mad:
 
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